"You could tell the same story..."

[femalemiya]

"...if you switched the genders"?!
The above was written on the imdb forums, and I was wondering what you guys think. Personally, I'm inclined to disagree-kinda.
You could indeed tell that same story, but I personally wouldn't have cared about the romance very much. (No offense, just hear me out.)
I mean, if WALL-E were the female robot, then people'd be up in arms about "she's pathetic!" "A female who needs her man to be complete!" "Oh, she's so weak!" and yada yada yada. That would only bother me a little... But if EVE were the male, I'd almost hate him. ;D Call it a double-standard, but if a guy acted the way EVE did at the beginning of the film, I'd almsot call him a jack-arse. lol

Sorry if this ticked off anyone, but what are your thoughts on what the poster said? (He/She failed to go into much detail, only saying that if WALL-E were female and EVE male, the story wouldn't change at all and it would seem more familiar. If anyone finds that post, I'd be grateful. ^^)

[MidgardDragon]

I think you can tell the same story with the genders switched, and it'd still be great. But yes you'd get those complainers who would think girlWALL-E was a weak woman because she wanted a man, etc. I actually think this is a terrible double-standard, and hate it.

However, I don't think the movie would be *as great* if the genders were switched. Part of the novelty of EVE, IMO, is what a strong "woman" she is, without turning her into this "girl power" driven annoying "witch". That's the sad thing about so many strong females in film today, they drive home the "girl power" thing so much that it becomes cliche. I love that EVE wasn't identified by her gender and it wasn't about trying to prove women are strong (not that many women aren't, just that it gets annoying seeing the same thing over and over.)

Similarly, part of the novely of the "cute lovable" robot being a guy is that the hero of the story doesn't have to be some macho manly man to be great. Strong men in film are often portrayed as having an overabundance of testosterone, something we thankfully don't have to deal with with WALL-E.

In the end, though, neither of the robots truly have "genders". They're both just robots. They only have "genders" because we assign them genders by saying "she has a girl's voice and he has a boy's voice, so she is female and he is male". But truly, the key things that make a man a man and a woman a woman, biologically speaking, are lacking from both of them.

[Calamity EVE]

ROFL

That was me! I was the one who said that (or, at least, I was the most vocal about it, if I recall correctly).

I agree, Wall•E as a girl would have been an irritating wimp and EVE would have made a pretty arrogant prick of a boyfriend, but I still think that the film could have worked that way. I mean, come on, they're robots. They don't have genitalia, and as such, they don't really have sex roles based on said genitalia. And, as I stated before, you get a story at least somewhat akin to the Freddie Prinze Jr. vehicle, "She's All That" (ugh) if you reverse Wall•E's and EVE's genders. So I know that that type of love story can work. For whatever reason, though, people seem to be more drawn to romances where the female is stand-offish and curt at first and then warms up to the sweet and persistent male protagonist, rather than the stand-offish and curt male character warming up to the lovesick female. I guess people are just inclined to feel more pity for a lovelorn girl than a guy? Pretty sexist if you ask me.

I personally think that either version, as long as it's pulled off in an original way, is intriguing.

EDIT: I'm with MidgardDragon 100%. Every single thing you said, bro.

[AtomicGreymon]

lol, it's never quite the same when the guy is holding an ion cannon on the girl, is it?

In any case, whatever their genders, it's obvious who's wearing the pants in that relationship ;D; if you want to use such archaic expressions, anyway

[vanessajoyce]

This is funny because I was watching Miyasaki's "Castle in the Sky" last night and for some reason I started wondering if the story would have worked the other way around. At first, I didn't think it could, but the longer the story went on, the more I thought it could. It might take a few adjustments, but in the right person's hands it could work.

[bkim]

I think it would have switched the entire meaning of the film. WALL-E is kind of supposed to represent a stereotypical "socially inept geek" who falls in love with a girl who is "way out of his league." The beauty of the film is that the girl realizes that it's not what is on the outside that counts, but what's inside. Switching the genders would have made this message impossible to send.

[Calamity EVE]

Interesting you should say that, vanessajoyce, because I think that Miyazaki toyed with the gender reversal of Pazu and Sheeta by flipping their characters in "Princess Mononoke". In "Castle in the Sky", Pazu is the tragically ignorant but excitable young man, and Sheeta plays a more passive role. In "Princess Mononoke", San is the tragically ignorant and fiery young woman, but Ashitaka is the quieter and more levelheaded one. My God, they even look alike.

[vanessajoyce]

And interestingly I like both films equally! It just shows that in a skilled writer/director's hands, gender is unimportant.

[Khodhum]

Could you have told the same story with the genders reversed? Yes, I think you could. However, I think people's reactions to it would be VERY different.

[Bubblegum]

Sept 6, 2008 17:51:28 GMT -5 MidgardDragon said:

Similarly, part of the novely of the "cute lovable" robot being a guy is that the hero of the story doesn't have to be some macho manly man to be great.

This is one thing I'm starting to notice about many movies today...We have so many "he's not your average, stereotypical hero" characters, that these very characters are actually starting to become the new stereotypical character! Being the strong, brave, attractive hero doesn't really seem to be the norm much anymore.

[smkndofpnutdssrt]

I agree it would have been a little cliche if the "genders" were switched. But some cliches can work if done right. I watched a Taiwanese drama that was very Wall-E/Eve-like (if Wall-E had been a girl and Eve a guy). The nerdy, klutzy girl was madly in love with this suave, handsome, coldhearted, stubborn guy, and no matter how meanly he treated her, she never gave up on him and eventually broke him. And I loved it. I thought it was adorable. It's still my favorite drama.

But as for Wall-e, I like things the way they are. I really like the way they wrote Eve. Like MD said, she's got some girl-power, but at the same time she's not perfect and she has a lot to learn. The problem in a lot of stories is something called a Mary-Sue. A Mary-Sue is a female character who is pretty and perfect and powerful and can do no wrong and always saves the day. Eve had the potential to be a Mary-Sue, but luckily she isn't. If she is a Mary-Sue, she's the most well-written Mary-Sue there is.

I think it may be the fact that the story was written by males that influenced the whole guy-gets-the-girl story rather than the damsel in distress waiting for her knight in shining armor to come and take her to her castle. And they did it so well. There's something so original about it.

[vanessajoyce]

Wow, smkndofpnutdssrt . . . you just made me realize that the backward girl breaking down the suave and distant guy is basically the plot of every shojo manga series I read! No wonder I love the plot of WALL-E -- it's like Fruits Basket in reverse! ;D

[smkndofpnutdssrt]

Wait...what's the name of it?

[vanessajoyce]

You mean, Fruits Basket?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruits_Basket

[smkndofpnutdssrt]

Ok nevermind. I thought Fruits Basket was a company that made manga series or something like that because I hear about it too much. But there's a manga called It Started With A Kiss that is also a drama, which is the drama I was mentioning before.