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Post by Khodhum on Aug 28, 2008 20:44:46 GMT -5
Yeah, I hate when I watch a movie that thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread, and I end up not understanding it at all because the director thought he was above a pathetic lifeform such as myself. WALL-E, on the other hand, is so humble...WALL-E himself is, the people who worked on it are, everything about it is. And yet at the same time the storytelling is just on a level most movies could never dream of achieving.
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Post by smkndofpnutdssrt on Aug 28, 2008 21:06:55 GMT -5
Wow, yes . . . this is a point I hadn't thought of. Most people go to films expecting to be entertained. And although I do think WALL-E is entertaining, it really does ask you to bring more of your own soul to the experience. I think that might be one of the factors that contributes to whether a person loves the film or not -- if you come to any kind of entertainment with the desire to be enlightened as well as to laugh, then this is your kind of film. If you don't think that way, this film will probably just seem "cute." I don't think that's necessarily true. When I walked into that theater to watch Wall-E, I wasn't expecting to be taken away by it at all. I expected to enjoy it, but that's about it. So Wall-E has the ability to enlighten anyone all on its own. It just depends on how your thinking works. It depends on what has the ability to inspire you. And that all depends on your culture or upbringing. My mom was the same way. I asked her what she thought of the movie and all she had to say was, "it was cute." I asked her to expand a little, but she had nothing else to say. Not to mention, when I was trying to convince her to go see it, she said, "I have no interest in seeing Wall-E. I'm an adult." And I'm not? Well...that is up for speculation, actually...
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Post by Viva la Vida on Aug 28, 2008 22:55:30 GMT -5
I don't think it's so much about WALL-E being "too smart" as it is the fact that WALL-E's storytelling sensibility is very different from what American audiences have become accustomed to in the last few decades. Just about anyone can understand the story, because it was purposely designed to be simple and universal(yet most definitely NOT shallow). But not everyone will have the patience to appreciate the dialogue-free storytelling when they're so used to snappy, rapid-fire dialogue in animated films, and not everyone will be comfortable with important sociological themes in what they perceive as nothing more than a kids' movie.
It succeeded in opening much higher in it's first weekend than last year's Ratatouille because the surface premise of cute robots on a wild adventure sounds much more appealing than a rat who cooks. The key word here, of course, is surface. The general moviegoing audience went in expecting a cute animated adventure starring robots like Disney had marketed the film as -- and thus they were stunned by the deep themes and unusual storytelling. As much as it hurts me to admit it(and believe me, it does), WALL-E has had the worst box office legs in Pixar's history so far. It's still very much a success, of course; but there's no doubt in my mind that it deserved more.
BUT the fact that WALL-E got made at all, much less become the seventh Pixar film in a row to cross $200 million, is a multifold testament to Pixar's artistic, technical, and commercial evolution over the last 13 years. Andrew Stanton knew that he couldn't go right ahead and make WALL-E right after conceiving it in that 1994 dinner, not only because Disney would not greenlight such a project at the time, but also because he and the rest of the nascent Pixar artists simply weren't ready yet, and neither was the CGI technology. So they built themselves up and developed themselves as world-class filmmakers and storytellers, and achieved breakthrough after breakthrough with the CGI technology, while making billions for Disney at the same time that their once-glorious 2-D division sank under Eisner's poor leadership.
Eventually, they reached the point where they've earned the right to tackle more experimental projects. Not only that, but they're using their vast success and influence to show a wide audience what the medium is truly capable of. For that, I am beyond proud of them.
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Post by vanessajoyce on Aug 28, 2008 23:29:43 GMT -5
All well said, Viva. I agree with your point that there was most likely an expectation that this film would be about "cute robots" and that brought people in in the beginning.
One thing too -- and Stanton has mentioned this in recent interviews -- this was a very "crowded" summer for movies. The reality is that there are only so many screens available and when TDK showed up and took everyone by surprise, it kicked everyone (not just WALL-E) out of the top billing slots. I really think TDK was a factor that no one could have known about.
Another factor for the "bad legs" . . . many Pixar films have been released at the end of May and I really think that WALL-E being released in North America at the end of June was another reason it only made $200 million. (I say "only" . . . I mean, $200 million domestically is NOT a failure!) I'm sure there was some kind of agreement between Disney and DW to let DreamWorks have "full summer" and I really believe that also caused a major dent in WALL-E's ability to bring in more money. ("Up" will be released end of May, which will definitely work in its favor.)
For example, if I had seen the film the end of May, I know I would have made the time to see it at least three more times throughout the month of June in addition to the three times I saw it in July. If TDK hadn't been part of the picture, I'm sure the theater I frequent would have kept WALL-E at least another couple weeks -- which would have meant I would have probably seen it at least once more. That's a minimum of 7 times I would have seen it, when with the situation as it was, I only got to see it 3 times in the theater.
It just shows that people have to have a chance to see a film, and I think WALL-E got shoved out of the way more quickly than a Pixar film normally would. I personally know people who told me they wanted to see it, but were shocked to find out it was already mostly gone from our local theaters.
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Post by smkndofpnutdssrt on Aug 29, 2008 0:02:43 GMT -5
Personally, I don't think you can tell much about a movie by what it makes in the box office. Especially during the opening weekend. The opening weekend just tells you how many people want to see the movie. But after opening weekend, you look at how quickly it climbs the box office (not how high it gets) to see who is coming back to watch it a second or third or 10,000th time (in my case).
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Post by Khodhum on Aug 29, 2008 0:26:29 GMT -5
10000 times? That's almost two entire years of your life watching WALL-E! </mathgeek>
I love this movie, but I can't wrap my brain around that one...
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Post by smkndofpnutdssrt on Aug 29, 2008 0:57:36 GMT -5
I'm just exaggerating, geeeeez ;D
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Post by bima on Aug 29, 2008 6:40:20 GMT -5
It's still very much a success, of course; but there's no doubt in my mind that it deserved more. Yes, absolutely! It deserves more than this, that's why I post this thread at the first place. Am I the only one who thinks that somehow this movie didn't make as many as another Pixar's? I don't say that the box office gross is everything. $216 million domestically (so far) is not a failure, but it deserve more. Wall-E is one of the best thing that ever come to our cinema. Please correct me if I overrated this movie, but I really think Wall-E is that good. Oh, and I have another example that Wall-E was too smart. My cousin - who had a terrible taste on movies - fell asleep when we watched Wall-E at the first time! Yet he'd seen KFP three times already at theater. This is why as much as I loved Wall-E I admitted that KFP is more entertaining for SOME audiences.
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Post by bima on Aug 29, 2008 7:21:27 GMT -5
I'm sure there was some kind of agreement between Disney and DW to let DreamWorks have "full summer" and I really believe that also caused a major dent in WALL-E's ability to bring in more money. Really? That's also what I had in mind! KFP was released in Indonesia when holiday is in its peak. Children goes to the theater almost everyday. And it was a huge success. Wall-E on the other hand, released when the school season is coming. Who will watch it then? Sure the grown ups will be there (especially a grown up like us) but how about the kids? I know Wall-E were not only for kids yada yada yada but the kids is one of the biggest money drawer. (I know that I sound like a Katzenberg here but I cannot help to not commenting this kind of distribution Disney had!) It's not fair!
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Post by vanessajoyce on Aug 29, 2008 8:03:36 GMT -5
Distribution is such a crazy game . . . and Katzenberg does have a lo of power in the industry. Who knows -- except those who do the behind the scenes negotiating -- what's really going on?
Just another reason why the amount of money a film makes can have absolutely nothing to do with its quality or possibilities.
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Post by bima on Aug 29, 2008 8:14:49 GMT -5
I used to read this post on a legit newspaper on the net, they said when Katzenberg first hear about A Bug's Life idea from Lasseter and Stanton, he just nodded and say that it will be the same day when Prince of Egypt released.
Later, Lasseter heard that Dreamworks will announced their new animated feature, Antz. The concept and story, while not 100% alike with A Bug's Life, looks like a rip-off. Lasseter asked Katzenberg why he did that? And do you know what Katzenberg said?
He said he will cancelled Antz if Pixar will change the released date of Bug's Life, further than The Prince of Egypt.
I swear I read this post somewhere. And it's not a cheap web, it's one of the legitimate newspaper internet. I kinda not surprised if Katzenberg do what he did again....
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Post by vanessajoyce on Aug 29, 2008 8:27:23 GMT -5
No, you're exactly right. This is absolutely what happened. David Price's book "The Pixar Touch" has several chapters devoted to the Pixar/Disney vs DreamWorks saga. (You probably were reading a review of this book; it just came out a few months ago.)
It's a really fantastic read for anyone who's interested in the animation business and what makes Pixar unique in the history of movie making.
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Post by bima on Aug 29, 2008 8:45:10 GMT -5
Speaking about this topic (smart Wall-E). I just came from college when I met my professor. He teaches history of Architecture. He said about how Modern world gave such an 'emptiness' to human lives. The 'emptiness' that you wouldn't feel because you were in it. He gives an example like Le Corbusier's apartment who gives everything human will needs. The concept of the apartment was very scary; human won't go anywhere, human will live at the building and they will survive in that building. There's no need to go outside because everything is accessible from inside. The concept of the apartment was one of the culmination of Modern era. We're able to do almost everything without going anywhere, thanks to the internet and mobile phones. My professor told me that it would happen someday when we won't talk face to face anymore. IT was like Axiom. It was what everybody scared of. And it was so tragic that they were BORN in Axiom, not knowing earth and not knowing how to see your friends real face. At some point this movie was soooooo scary and tragic. I don't know if my professor watched Wall-E already but I really like to ask him to watch it with me.
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Post by vanessajoyce on Aug 29, 2008 9:52:35 GMT -5
What a great post. Yes, there are so many really deep concepts that the film touches on and this is one of the really couragous things Stanton did in the story. It really did hit me how sad the humans seemed to be when WALL-E first meets them -- they're busy and occupied, but there's an underlying sadness and irritation with their existence. As opposed to WALL-E's life -- where he is curious, involved and appreciates experience.
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Post by hopper on Aug 29, 2008 10:17:46 GMT -5
What a great post. Yes, there are so many really deep concepts that the film touches on and this is one of the really couragous things Stanton did in the story. It really did hit me how sad the humans seemed to be when WALL-E first meets them -- they're busy and occupied, but there's an underlying sadness and irritation with their existence. As opposed to WALL-E's life -- where he is curious, involved and appreciates experience. i would have to agree about that.. afterall one of the first dialogue between humans goes as such (close approximation) human 1:lets go over to the driving range and hit some virtual balls into space human 2:nah, we did that yesterday human 1:then what DO you wanna do human 2: i dunno, something or i think it was mary complainging about how holidays were a 'virtual disaster' right before wall-e interrupted her definately a sign of hating that lifestyle, imho at that point the axium might as well have been a prison really i like how after wall-e interrupts mary and turns off her screen she leaves it off and just takes in the scenery, same with john after he bumps into mary, also an interesting thing, how many of you noticed their cloths go back to red at that point (by the time they land everyone was back to red again but for a while only john and mary were red, everyone else was blue)
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