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Post by Callandor on Aug 11, 2008 17:39:51 GMT -5
I think he should be able to understand the backwards E, does he have a basic logic thingy in side him? Cause if he does his logic would just tell him that thats an E backwards
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Post by MidgardDragon on Aug 11, 2008 17:42:32 GMT -5
How long is the "humans leaving Earth" ahead of our time? 100 years? I think in that time we'd definitely have AI that could easily recognize letters both backwards and forward.
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Post by vanessajoyce on Aug 11, 2008 18:05:54 GMT -5
But would a bottom-rung robot like WALL-E have that kind of knowledge? I see him as being a bare-bones kind of design -- no fancy stuff at all. Would a designer/engineer/programmer take the time (and, I'm assuming money) to put such AI in him when his sole purpose is to compact and stack trash? Or could it be that such AI as so "easy" in 2100-2110 that it's sort of just default in how BNL robots are designed and built? Just trying to take the reasoning all the way to edge . . .
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Post by MidgardDragon on Aug 11, 2008 18:08:22 GMT -5
Hmm, I guess it depends on how advanced that technology is at that point. If it's, say, like DOS is now in comparison, and they have much more sophisticated AI such as Windows is now, then WALL-E would likely have it. If it's the furthest advanced type of AI, then he definitely wouldn't. I guess it depends how rapidly technology advances. Looking at how far we've come in 20 years, I'm inclined to say that the simple operation of being able to identify a letter when written backwards is on the lower end of the spectrum. The advanced end would be being able to recognize a letter from any angle, translate it into several different languages at any angle, and list every word that starts with said letter in several languages. That's my two cents anyway.
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Post by Callandor on Aug 11, 2008 18:12:30 GMT -5
Totaly agree with MD, that advanced of a technology (hover chairs! how mroe advanced can you get? ) would prob have a default inside that will automatically tell him to reconize a ltter at any angle
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Post by vanessajoyce on Aug 11, 2008 18:16:34 GMT -5
More than two cents. I'll give you $20.00 for that comment. ;D This is exactly what I was trying to get at. And what you've described I now agree with because your explanation was so good and "works" for me. Even some OCR software TODAY has the ability to understand letters that are switched around or backwards. It's the higher meaning of the letter -- seeing it in different contexts -- would maybe be the stuff of more advanced robots. Wow -- everyone's really made this a great thread.
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Post by Norwesterner on Aug 12, 2008 1:43:32 GMT -5
In the climactic Lido Deck scene, WALL•E clearly seemed to have an appreciation of what the Holo-Detector was, and the importance of holding it open, even to the risk of his own life. WALL•E could have only gained this appreciation by understanding the message that Captain managed to hot-wire and broadcast over the Axiom's comm system from his quarters.
Otherwise, given WALL•E's past demonstrated proclivity for shying away from, and cubing up in, the face of dangerous or threatening situations -- he would have normally moved out of the way of the closing Holo-Detector and/or cubed up, rather than deliberately insert and extend himself to keep it open. EVE's simply depositing him next to the Holo-Dectector would not have been enough to compel him to take the risks with it that he did.
All this, and his use of phrases like, "You who!" in getting Mary's attention on the monorail car earlier in the film; tells me that this guy is likely more intelligent than he lets on, and is probably a very good and perceptive listener who comprehends a fair amount of human speech as well! Like many humans with communications, but not necessarily cognitive, disabilities -- WALL•E's speech synthesizers were likely very primitive, simply because he did not need to communicate with humans as part of his original directive, just receive, and comply with, instructions from them -- which likely would require a decent knowledge of human vocabulary.
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Post by vanessajoyce on Aug 12, 2008 8:57:32 GMT -5
All great points, Norwester. I actually watched that scene very carefully where the Captain hot-wires the communication so he can send a message and show the manual instructions to WALL-E and EVE and I wouldn't feel comfortable using that to prove that WALL-E can understand/read only because . . . 1. The book has no words in it, only illustrations. So WALL-E (and EVE, although I believe she completely understand what the Captain is saying) could conceivably have seen the illustrations and understood what the goal is. 2. I personally (and this just me personally) see WALL-E's personality changing through the film to the point where once they get the holo-deck climax, his whole focus -- and you might argue his "directive" -- is "what does EVE want?" Whatever she wants, he supports and will literally kill himself to make her happy. I really think that what the Captain wants or instructs is sort of unimportant to WALL-E -- he's just following EVE's lead. Especially at this point in the film where he is also completely reliant on her to protect him. (Shameless plug: myadversaria.wordpress.com/2008/07/18/walles-final-stand-for-whom/ ) Having said all that above -- my main interest in asking this question and hearing what people say is to get a feel for what people would accept in my fan fic writing as WALL-E's knowledge base. I'm really relieved that my original take (he knows NOTHING) is sort of extreme for people because they get the sense that WALL-E is, as you say, smarter than he lets on (or can let on with his limited external capabilities). It sounds to me like most people believe that he has extremely advanced emotional intelligence which compensates for any lack of "intellectual" intelligence in coping with the challenges in his life. Which is great for where I'm going with my stories because I know what to focus on to keep the WALL-E I portray true to the original character. As far as the actual intelligence he has, I just want to be careful that I don't give him too much knowledge so that he comes across as "too smart." (Especially since my stories have a "dumber" WALL-E than the movie because I'm doing prequels that show his development.) But I really appreciate these great comments because it assures me that if, in the context of my story I need him to understand a "human" word, I don't have to do a lot of "backstory" to explain why he would know it. My audience would probably be willing to accept that he knows the word -- which sure makes the writing easier.
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Post by MidgardDragon on Aug 12, 2008 8:58:12 GMT -5
You raise some excellent points, Norwesterner, and you may very well be right on the money. I guess the only real way to answer this question after all of the discussion we've had is: did WALL-E ever *not* understand something in the movie? I can't think of a time where he didn't understand a word other than "Earth". That does seem an odd one not to understand, of course. I'm not sure if you're giving him too much credit, or if we're not giving him enough, but ultimately I think vanessa will just have to make it her call as we don't have a definitive answer.
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Post by vanessajoyce on Aug 12, 2008 9:05:02 GMT -5
Hmmm . . . and I actually thought he did understand the word, he just didn't immediately understand what point she was trying to make by using that word. ("I want you to get in the pod and go back to Earth.") I actually have "Earth" on my "default words WALL-E knows" list. Thanks, guys for all your help! Everyone on this thread so far will get personal thanks in my next story because all this has been really important to my thinking through particular scenes.
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Post by MidgardDragon on Aug 12, 2008 9:44:01 GMT -5
Hmmm . . . and I actually thought he did understand the word, he just didn't immediately understand what point she was trying to make by using that word. ("I want you to get in the pod and go back to Earth.") I actually have "Earth" on my "default words WALL-E knows" list. Thanks, guys for all your help! Everyone on this thread so far will get personal thanks in my next story because all this has been really important to my thinking through particular scenes. That's a good point about Earth as well. I hadn't thought of it. It just seemed when she said "Earth" she had no clue what he meant, until she pointed to it. But you could very well be right that she didn't know that she meant the POD was going to Earth. Now that I think about it that's probably exactly what it was. So really, there isn't a time when WALL-E didn't understand a word that was said to him in the movie.
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bkim
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Post by bkim on Aug 23, 2008 17:37:52 GMT -5
WALL-E also understood Shelby Forthright's message about placing the plant in the holo-detector, as he let out an "oh" at the same time the captain did after Shelby said "it's that easy!".
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Post by vanessajoyce on Aug 23, 2008 18:01:31 GMT -5
Wow, good observation . . . I don't remember that . . . I'll have to watch that scene again because I seem to remember WALL-E being pretty much being totally observed in figuring out how to get over to EVE without anyone spotting him . . .
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Post by Bubblegum on Aug 24, 2008 0:07:56 GMT -5
WALL-E also understood Shelby Forthright's message about placing the plant in the holo-detector, as he let out an "oh" at the same time the captain did after Shelby said "it's that easy!". I think I know what you're talking about. He kind of cocks his head a little bit.
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Post by buynlarge on Aug 24, 2008 0:48:55 GMT -5
Also, when he's in the elevator with EVE, he points to the Rogue Robots screen, but it may have just gotten his attention because he recognized their pictures and not because he understood what "Rogue Robots" meant. That's the joke. He's like: "Look, Eve! It's us!"
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